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Political Correctness…  

khuXBFXM8u 58M
7403 posts
2/21/2016 6:36 am
Political Correctness…



…commonly abbreviated to PC, is a term primarily used as a pejorative to describe language, policies, or measures which are intended not to offend or disadvantage any particular group of people in society; in pejorative usage, those who use the term are generally implying that these policies are excessive. Political correctness just seems like civility to me. Civility is defined as, “formal politeness and courtesy in behavior or speech”. Is being too polite or courteous a bad thing? Some seem to believe that taking measures to make sure we don’t offend or disadvantage others is going a step too far.

A few weeks back I did a post on The Golden Rule. I was wondering if for the most part, people didn’t believe in it anymore, if “do on to other’s as you would have them do on to you”, was no longer the rule. Judging by the responses, most still view it that way, leaving me all the more puzzled. I’m puzzled why it’s become in vogue to rail against these basic principles; politeness, courtesy, political correctness if you will.

I wonder… is it because it takes some effort… effort to call a spade a spade, without a deliberate intent to offend? Or have we drifted so far down the slippery slope that our goal is to offend, when someone is different from us in appearance, station in life, hue, popularity, political or sexual belief?

Thoughts


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rm_PrisicaK 45F
481 posts
2/21/2016 6:50 am

Political correctness is an acknowledgement that we only have a surface understanding of people and issues and our intent is to maintain that level and go no further. Th point is not to offend but fail to engage


khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 6:57 am

Certain engagement would facilitate a deeper understanding, but I'm not sure I'm completely following your thought

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spankandsquirt20 41F
10332 posts
2/21/2016 7:02 am

When it comes to political correctness I think it has gone a little too far. As a society we are so afraid of offending that everything now has to be politically correct, being IMHO too quick to jump on someone or something we might find offensive.
I notice this a lot in what they teach the kids in school, they are not given room to think for themselves, they are taught was is supposedly correct or not, and they are afraid of voicing an opinion in case they are called out of being offensive or wrong.

I mean sometimes we do need to call a spade a spade, but here seems to be no room for that anymore. While I have taught my kids to always think for themselves, to be fair and careful in their judgement of others, I know many people have never been taught this, and to me it poses a problem....since it seems as if we are now being told what is right to think and talk about and what we are not supposed to...


khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 7:07 am

    Quoting CarbonRoadBike:
    I think the lash back against political correctness is not the more extreme kind. The back lash is because people end up being offended by everything under the sun. What happens is people were taught not to say this or that since it might be offensive or hurt somebodies feelings. What ended up happening is the old "give an inch they take a mile" where people that want to censor speech push, and push, and push until people decide they don't even agree with the first thing.........

    We have to be careful here because while extreme political correctness is not right, the basic premise of it is.
Words can be weapons, and as the saying goes it cuts both ways. Free speech and censor... too many want to censor others, but have the freedom to say whatever they want. It just can't work that way.

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pal334 66M  
40887 posts
2/21/2016 7:08 am

I feel that politeness is very important. My only objection to being PC is that a group (can be a majority or minority of people) seem intent to make discourse to be homogenous and non controversial. If we do not share honest opinions, how shall people learn, or hear another opinion that hopefully can contribute to another's thoughts or opinions (hopefully to the positive)?

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 7:24 am

I disagree with some of what you say, but some is right on point IMHO.

We should think before we speak! Unless the reason for speaking is simply to hear ones own voice, as opposed to effectively communicate. I do think that for the most part our society teaches us to follow, and not think. This just seem ass backwards to me.

We should always call a spade a spade. Admittedly, finding the words to effectively communicate can be difficult at times, but the effort is rewarded by keeping the discussion on point, rather than on the words chosen to deliver the message.

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 7:40 am

    Quoting pal334:
    I feel that politeness is very important. My only objection to being PC is that a group (can be a majority or minority of people) seem intent to make discourse to be homogenous and non controversial. If we do not share honest opinions, how shall people learn, or hear another opinion that hopefully can contribute to another's thoughts or opinions (hopefully to the positive)?
We do need to share honest opinions, but doing it a non-offensive is the only way I see it working. When you are offended, and your "back is up" are in a better or worse frame of mine to share and discussion honest opinion on a subject, especially a controversial one?

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 8:03 am

    Quoting Sexy_SandraD:
    I don't think that a person should avoid being themselves or that they should avoid speaking the truth for the sake of PC, especially on a dating/sex site. If they are an asshole who doesn't embrace diversity, it's best for everyone to know.
One man's person's truth is another's lie, as the saying goes. But nevertheless, people should speak their truths as they know it. Hopefully it's based on facts.

But, just like free speech... do we still embrace diversity when others interpret or present themes on a subject we are passionate about, differently from us, or in a way that doesn't sit well with us?

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 8:05 am

    Quoting CarbonRoadBike:
    You made a good point about it working both ways. That is a major problem. People want others to not be discriminatory or use inflammatory language, but they turn around and use it on the ones they say are oppressing them.

    The thing is the pendulum always swings back so eventually we get back to where we started which is not a good thing.
Then it seems prudent to try and effectively communicate without swinging the pendulum.

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kinkyfem73 47F

2/21/2016 8:19 am

I believe its because society in general has become lazy and self absorbed.... its too much effort to stop and think for 5 seconds about how best to get your point across without hurting/offending the other person.
"Its not what you say~ its HOW you say it"

IMHO

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 8:41 am

    Quoting 1EroticauthorTwo:
    There is always time for kindness, understanding and empathy, the Golden Rule should be a yardstick to measure how we would like to be treated and then reciprocated.
    That being said, I believe that people are looking to be offended or slighted in today's world. OMG everyone seems to be offended by someone else and is so sure that no one can possibly comprehend how they feel. If someone is deliberately trying to be offensive then that is wrong, however many times there is no intent and the other person is walking around with a chip on their shoulder. Sometimes perceived insults are a generational thing...what was acceptable 40/30/20/10 years ago is suddenly wrong...not everyone got the memo so maybe cutting some slack might be warranted, give others the benefit of the doubt that everyone is slamming someone else.
    I am not politically correct, I am kind, empathetic and a nurturer. I have said on more than one occasion that if I was trying to offend you there would be no doubt in your mind that I am laying it out there. I have no time for bullies or those being mean but come on some people are just being childish trying to get attention in being perpetually offended.
    Sorry, I am more than a little fed up with tolerance only going in one direction these days and the absence of logical thought. IMO
    (Just last week I had someone 'offended' because we had labeled certain frames women/men/children. Apparently everything should be gender neutral and I am thinking, "If you don't know who you are by the time you are in your 20's/30's it isn't anyone's issue but yours. If you are born with breasts and a vagina and want to wear a frame that has always been labeled 'mens' then wear it proudly. If you were born with a penis and like bling on your frames then for God's sake own that style baby don't try to make everyone feel that they have to cater to your fragile feelings. News flash...not everything is about you)
More people are a looking to be offended, and ironically it seem like it's those who rail against politically correctness, who seem to be the ones most looking to be offended.

"Political correctness" is after all a term invented by conservative author Dinesh D'Souza's, who felt that American had go to far with regard to multiculturalism, affirmative action, and self-victimization. Even more ironic is witnessing the Republic primaries where you see first hand the various versions of political correctness being practiced, as they rail against political correctness.

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 8:42 am

    Quoting kinkyfem73:
    I believe its because society in general has become lazy and self absorbed.... its too much effort to stop and think for 5 seconds about how best to get your point across without hurting/offending the other person.
    "Its not what you say~ its HOW you say it"

    IMHO
It is all about "me", Sis

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spunkycumfun 60M/65F  
36120 posts
2/21/2016 9:32 am

I've never fully understood the backlash to political correct language but, as the cliche goes, Rome wasn't built in a day!


kzoopair 69M/67F
25820 posts
2/21/2016 9:37 am

People reject political correctness because it smacks of thought control and speech police. In the end it doesn't change anything, because euphemisms and coded speech are substituted instead of the banned words and phrases. None of us has the right to not be offended. We still have every right to protest what we see as offensive speech and to point out why we see it as offensive. But how did we get from the Berkeley Free Speech Movement to political correctness?

Some comedians have complained that it isn't worth their while to perform on college campuses today because the politically correct students and faculty are waiting to pounce on the performers for the slightest perceived infraction. Social regulation is useful. Much of the talk and much of the language on this site would not have been acceptable a short time ago, and still isn't acceptable in certain social situations today. It depends a lot on context and venue. It could also be said to depend upon whose ox is being gored, but there is a general perception that too many people today are acting as self appointed and self righteous speech vigilantes, that they've got a rope and a tree and are just looking for someone to hang.

Politically correct speech is portrayed as primarily a liberal sin, but conservatives and libertarians have had a turn at redefining language too. Through a constant harangue "liberal" has changed from a descriptive term to a pejorative and "socialist" has become an expletive. We're no longer talking about ideas and instead jousting with barely concealed contempt at one another, banned words notwithstanding.

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sexysixties2 72F  
38998 posts
2/21/2016 10:00 am

I think we have taken political correctness too far. Whilst I would never intend to hurt with my words I do believe in free speech.

I do think that some people are just looking for an excuse to be offended these days.


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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 10:11 am

    Quoting 1EroticauthorTwo:
    Actually Political Correctness historically started way before D'Souza, according to several sources including Accuracy in Academia. If we look at it analytically, if we look at it historically, we quickly find out exactly what it is. Political Correctness is cultural Marxism. It is Marxism translated from economic into cultural terms. It is an effort that goes back not to the 1960s and the hippies and the peace movement, but back to World War I. If we compare the basic tenets of Political Correctness with classical Marxism the parallels are very obvious.
    Most theories are not new at all just regurgitated from history.

    The term “politically correct” is bandied about so much as to have become meaningless. But what really does it mean? Here’s a history of the term (as best I know it).
    “PC” has gone through four stages of meaning. “Politically correct” was initially coined by Leon Trotsky to refer favorably to those whose views remained in sync with the ever-shifting Bolshevik Party line. This was important, as “not PC” people risked prison or death.
    “Politically correct” was revived (and again, used favorably) by 1960s New Left radicals who fancied themselves revolutionaries in the mold of Che, Castro, and Mao.
    “Politically correct” was first used negatively by 1980s conservatives, following the publication of Allan Bloom’s Closing of the American Mind. Conservatives embraced the term “politically incorrect” as a badge of honor to contrast their championing of free speech against campus leftists who used speech codes to suppress debate on sensitive topics. This was also when the term first became widely known by its acronym, “PC.”
    In these three previous stages, everyone agreed that PC meant Left, and “not PC” meant Right. But because liberals don’t like a reputation of being anti-free speech, within a few years they did a turnabout, and called their opponents “PC” and themselves “not PC.” Bill Maher’s Politically Incorrect is representative of this fourth stage, creating the odd result of a self-proclaimed “not PC” show winning a very PC environmental media award.
    However, despite liberals’ turnabout, conservatives continued to refer to themselves too as “not PC.” Thus “PC” has lost any specific meaning in this fourth stage, since everyone defines their position as the now chic “not PC,” and their opponents as “PC.” (A far cry from the days when Russians dreaded the Chekists who executed “not PC” people.)
It's a dizzying explanation... applied to this society and economic model, the brew haha around PC or non-PC, is just noise to avoid dealing with issues in a forthright manner. So, yes it has no real meaning.

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 10:12 am

    Quoting spunkycumfun:
    I've never fully understood the backlash to political correct language but, as the cliche goes, Rome wasn't built in a day!
You and me both

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 10:20 am

    Quoting kzoopair:
    People reject political correctness because it smacks of thought control and speech police. In the end it doesn't change anything, because euphemisms and coded speech are substituted instead of the banned words and phrases. None of us has the right to not be offended. We still have every right to protest what we see as offensive speech and to point out why we see it as offensive. But how did we get from the Berkeley Free Speech Movement to political correctness?

    Some comedians have complained that it isn't worth their while to perform on college campuses today because the politically correct students and faculty are waiting to pounce on the performers for the slightest perceived infraction. Social regulation is useful. Much of the talk and much of the language on this site would not have been acceptable a short time ago, and still isn't acceptable in certain social situations today. It depends a lot on context and venue. It could also be said to depend upon whose ox is being gored, but there is a general perception that too many people today are acting as self appointed and self righteous speech vigilantes, that they've got a rope and a tree and are just looking for someone to hang.

    Politically correct speech is portrayed as primarily a liberal sin, but conservatives and libertarians have had a turn at redefining language too. Through a constant harangue "liberal" has changed from a descriptive term to a pejorative and "socialist" has become an expletive. We're no longer talking about ideas and instead jousting with barely concealed contempt at one another, banned words notwithstanding.
Well said... thoughts of a rope and a tree, have me thinking of the spelling and grammar police on this site.

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 10:25 am

    Quoting sexysixties2:
    I think we have taken political correctness too far. Whilst I would never intend to hurt with my words I do believe in free speech.

    I do think that some people are just looking for an excuse to be offended these days.

But does yours, mine, our belief in free speech remain when we are targets of undesired words?

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KItkat1415 58F  
19980 posts
2/21/2016 10:56 am

Here, Oh here here teacher! (raising my hand)
I can tell you why...
When you ASK if the golden rule should be observed, of course people say "yes" it was how we were all raised.
but PC? That is someone TELLING us that we have to act a certain way...
And for most people, they do not like being told to act any certain way.
Me? Being polite, being kind, being empathetic is most important to me.
Call it what you will, that is how I think I should act.
And I only have control over my actions, and to help guide my kids in being like that, too.
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sweet_VM 62F
81036 posts
2/21/2016 11:22 am

I am whom I am and no way anyone will ever change me. I always try to be politically correct hugsss V

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sexysixties2 72F  
38998 posts
2/21/2016 12:27 pm

    Quoting khuXBFXM8u:
    But does yours, mine, our belief in free speech remain when we are targets of undesired words?
People are free to say what they like about me...kind or unkind...of course I could be offended but I'm not likely to pull the PC card on them. I'd be more likely to thinks their words or actions were more of a reflection on them not me. However, I will admit that I am not likely to be the target of much political incorrectness.

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 1:16 pm

    Quoting KItkat1415:
    Here, Oh here here teacher! (raising my hand)
    I can tell you why...
    When you ASK if the golden rule should be observed, of course people say "yes" it was how we were all raised.
    but PC? That is someone TELLING us that we have to act a certain way...
    And for most people, they do not like being told to act any certain way.
    Me? Being polite, being kind, being empathetic is most important to me.
    Call it what you will, that is how I think I should act.
    And I only have control over my actions, and to help guide my kids in being like that, too.
    Kk
K.K. we're you that kid in school?

If it's how we were taught to act, and how we teach our children to act, whydo we seem to want to push back on it? As adults, are we practicing do what I say not what I do?

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 1:19 pm

    Quoting sweet_VM:
    I am whom I am and no way anyone will ever change me. I always try to be politically correct hugsss V
Nothing wrong with that

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 1:26 pm

    Quoting sexysixties2:
    People are free to say what they like about me...kind or unkind...of course I could be offended but I'm not likely to pull the PC card on them. I'd be more likely to thinks their words or actions were more of a reflection on them not me. However, I will admit that I am not likely to be the target of much political incorrectness.
I this day and age, everyone is a target

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redrockrascal 61M
21734 posts
2/21/2016 7:03 pm

    Quoting 1EroticauthorTwo:
    Actually Political Correctness historically started way before D'Souza, according to several sources including Accuracy in Academia. If we look at it analytically, if we look at it historically, we quickly find out exactly what it is. Political Correctness is cultural Marxism. It is Marxism translated from economic into cultural terms. It is an effort that goes back not to the 1960s and the hippies and the peace movement, but back to World War I. If we compare the basic tenets of Political Correctness with classical Marxism the parallels are very obvious.
    Most theories are not new at all just regurgitated from history.

    The term “politically correct” is bandied about so much as to have become meaningless. But what really does it mean? Here’s a history of the term (as best I know it).
    “PC” has gone through four stages of meaning. “Politically correct” was initially coined by Leon Trotsky to refer favorably to those whose views remained in sync with the ever-shifting Bolshevik Party line. This was important, as “not PC” people risked prison or death.
    “Politically correct” was revived (and again, used favorably) by 1960s New Left radicals who fancied themselves revolutionaries in the mold of Che, Castro, and Mao.
    “Politically correct” was first used negatively by 1980s conservatives, following the publication of Allan Bloom’s Closing of the American Mind. Conservatives embraced the term “politically incorrect” as a badge of honor to contrast their championing of free speech against campus leftists who used speech codes to suppress debate on sensitive topics. This was also when the term first became widely known by its acronym, “PC.”
    In these three previous stages, everyone agreed that PC meant Left, and “not PC” meant Right. But because liberals don’t like a reputation of being anti-free speech, within a few years they did a turnabout, and called their opponents “PC” and themselves “not PC.” Bill Maher’s Politically Incorrect is representative of this fourth stage, creating the odd result of a self-proclaimed “not PC” show winning a very PC environmental media award.
    However, despite liberals’ turnabout, conservatives continued to refer to themselves too as “not PC.” Thus “PC” has lost any specific meaning in this fourth stage, since everyone defines their position as the now chic “not PC,” and their opponents as “PC.” (A far cry from the days when Russians dreaded the Chekists who executed “not PC” people.)
That response is well beyond trivia – excellent background info. Political correctness is bovine fecal matter IMO and yes the way it is tossed around it means nothing. But it is a political buzzword now, used when politicians really have no viable answer – or clue.

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khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/21/2016 7:45 pm

    Quoting redrockrascal:
    That response is well beyond trivia – excellent background info. Political correctness is bovine fecal matter IMO and yes the way it is tossed around it means nothing. But it is a political buzzword now, used when politicians really have no viable answer – or clue.
One politician seems like he may ride it to victory.

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author51 57F  
99389 posts
2/22/2016 2:00 am

One can speak and debate with someone on an issue they are passionate about with tact yet still being able to say what is on their mind, their point of view without offence.It is the people who take things way too seriously and might be more narrow minded who take offence to things.

I normally just speak my mind and do know care what anyone else thinks about my point of view as it is mine, not necessarily theirs..

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humorlife 115M
5719 posts
2/22/2016 5:04 am

You’ve taken on a very difficult subject here, and I salute you for it.

You’re right: There is absolutely room for sensitivity in communication. But too often PC is used to suppress thoughts people simply don’t want to hear, as opposed to truly racist or sexist thoughts.

I am, more or less, a free-speech absolutist. No, people should not yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater. That is speech that presents an immediate threat to society.

But most discomforting speech is a lot more subtle than that. Is it political positions we don’t agree with? Expressing support for a country that isn’t favored by our peers? A reporter attempting to suss out the nuances of a story? Telling a joke?

My own take is that the economy of free speech is best served by an open exchange, up until the point of yelling fire in a crowded theater. Look, there are bloggers here whom I don’t care for. I find their posts obnoxious, self-serving, devoid of content…

And yet they are as entitled to space here as anybody else. I have the most effective method of combatting them, up until the point where they start presenting a tangible hazard to the community: With one click, I can find content I prefer.

That said, it is possible to discuss unpopular ideas. But it takes respect for the listeners. Yeah, people have a right to say nearly everything they want (See “Fire,” above.) But they also have the responsibility to understand that their ideas, and the way they express their ideas, comes with consequences.

Not censorship, consequences.

There is some wonderful media – “Blazing Saddles” comes to mind – which could not have been made under strict PC prohibitions. Blazing Saddles is one of my favorite movies, and its loss – along with other potentially offensive media – would be a loss.

Kzoopair has brought up comedians’ increasing unwillingness to perform on college campuses. Ideally, college campuses are where diversity and exploration of ideas should be celebrated, not shut down. But I fear there has been a trend toward the latter. (I’ve been out of academia for a quarter century: I’d love to hear from someone younger about this issue.)

If media encompasses harsh ideas – and this is not necessarily the case with Blazing Saddles – and it is suppressed, the thoughts behind those ideas haven’t been destroyed. They’ve merely been driven underground.

Me, I want the nasty stuff out where I can see it, so I can make judgments about the folks who are putting it out there. I want to know this side of them.

Once the ideas are out there, society can take steps to punish or reward it, such as with economic or social shunning. That’s the flip side of free speech: realizing that there are consequences. This is where some free speech advocates run into trouble: They want all the benefits of free speech, but don’t want to be smacked when they, um, talk smack. If we’re going to have the freedom, we have to take the consequences with it.

Ideas with which I disagree, but which are expressed civilly, are of value. The symposia on “Slut” and “Friends with Benefits” have both modified and given nuance to my thinking on these terms. That’s damned valuable. Living in an echo chamber, where the only opinions one can hear are those that mirror one’s own, is not.

A final note, and this is where activists on both sides of many issues fall down: Once a line is drawn – about what is and isn’t acceptable, whether in speech or actions – that line can be moved. Folks seem to overlook that: They believe that their line is the line of righteousness, and refuse to see that drawing limits can be used against ‘em.

That’s hard-earned knowledge. Would that more benefited from it.

Good, good post. Intellectually provoking, and great responses. Fine stuff, here!

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Han54boat 67M
11665 posts
2/22/2016 8:11 am

PC is going to far. As a group, it is fine and also not to bully the person because being different. One problem, it has become one way. There are two sides. Why does one needs to give up everything for the other.


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redrockrascal 61M
21734 posts
2/22/2016 1:11 pm

    Quoting humorlife:
    You’ve taken on a very difficult subject here, and I salute you for it.

    You’re right: There is absolutely room for sensitivity in communication. But too often PC is used to suppress thoughts people simply don’t want to hear, as opposed to truly racist or sexist thoughts.

    I am, more or less, a free-speech absolutist. No, people should not yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater. That is speech that presents an immediate threat to society.

    But most discomforting speech is a lot more subtle than that. Is it political positions we don’t agree with? Expressing support for a country that isn’t favored by our peers? A reporter attempting to suss out the nuances of a story? Telling a joke?

    My own take is that the economy of free speech is best served by an open exchange, up until the point of yelling fire in a crowded theater. Look, there are bloggers here whom I don’t care for. I find their posts obnoxious, self-serving, devoid of content…

    And yet they are as entitled to space here as anybody else. I have the most effective method of combatting them, up until the point where they start presenting a tangible hazard to the community: With one click, I can find content I prefer.

    That said, it is possible to discuss unpopular ideas. But it takes respect for the listeners. Yeah, people have a right to say nearly everything they want (See “Fire,” above.) But they also have the responsibility to understand that their ideas, and the way they express their ideas, comes with consequences.

    Not censorship, consequences.

    There is some wonderful media – “Blazing Saddles” comes to mind – which could not have been made under strict PC prohibitions. Blazing Saddles is one of my favorite movies, and its loss – along with other potentially offensive media – would be a loss.

    Kzoopair has brought up comedians’ increasing unwillingness to perform on college campuses. Ideally, college campuses are where diversity and exploration of ideas should be celebrated, not shut down. But I fear there has been a trend toward the latter. (I’ve been out of academia for a quarter century: I’d love to hear from someone younger about this issue.)

    If media encompasses harsh ideas – and this is not necessarily the case with Blazing Saddles – and it is suppressed, the thoughts behind those ideas haven’t been destroyed. They’ve merely been driven underground.

    Me, I want the nasty stuff out where I can see it, so I can make judgments about the folks who are putting it out there. I want to know this side of them.

    Once the ideas are out there, society can take steps to punish or reward it, such as with economic or social shunning. That’s the flip side of free speech: realizing that there are consequences. This is where some free speech advocates run into trouble: They want all the benefits of free speech, but don’t want to be smacked when they, um, talk smack. If we’re going to have the freedom, we have to take the consequences with it.

    Ideas with which I disagree, but which are expressed civilly, are of value. The symposia on “Slut” and “Friends with Benefits” have both modified and given nuance to my thinking on these terms. That’s damned valuable. Living in an echo chamber, where the only opinions one can hear are those that mirror one’s own, is not.

    A final note, and this is where activists on both sides of many issues fall down: Once a line is drawn – about what is and isn’t acceptable, whether in speech or actions – that line can be moved. Folks seem to overlook that: They believe that their line is the line of righteousness, and refuse to see that drawing limits can be used against ‘em.

    That’s hard-earned knowledge. Would that more benefited from it.

    Good, good post. Intellectually provoking, and great responses. Fine stuff, here!
Well put Humor, I completely agree. You hit quite a few nails directly on their heads.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.


khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/22/2016 9:13 pm

    Quoting author51:
    One can speak and debate with someone on an issue they are passionate about with tact yet still being able to say what is on their mind, their point of view without offence.It is the people who take things way too seriously and might be more narrow minded who take offence to things.

    I normally just speak my mind and do know care what anyone else thinks about my point of view as it is mine, not necessarily theirs..
To speak ones mind without concerns for the listner(s) is troublesome; more so if there is a lack of tack, IMHO.

Find pleasure in giving pleasure


khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/22/2016 9:28 pm

    Quoting humorlife:
    You’ve taken on a very difficult subject here, and I salute you for it.

    You’re right: There is absolutely room for sensitivity in communication. But too often PC is used to suppress thoughts people simply don’t want to hear, as opposed to truly racist or sexist thoughts.

    I am, more or less, a free-speech absolutist. No, people should not yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater. That is speech that presents an immediate threat to society.

    But most discomforting speech is a lot more subtle than that. Is it political positions we don’t agree with? Expressing support for a country that isn’t favored by our peers? A reporter attempting to suss out the nuances of a story? Telling a joke?

    My own take is that the economy of free speech is best served by an open exchange, up until the point of yelling fire in a crowded theater. Look, there are bloggers here whom I don’t care for. I find their posts obnoxious, self-serving, devoid of content…

    And yet they are as entitled to space here as anybody else. I have the most effective method of combatting them, up until the point where they start presenting a tangible hazard to the community: With one click, I can find content I prefer.

    That said, it is possible to discuss unpopular ideas. But it takes respect for the listeners. Yeah, people have a right to say nearly everything they want (See “Fire,” above.) But they also have the responsibility to understand that their ideas, and the way they express their ideas, comes with consequences.

    Not censorship, consequences.

    There is some wonderful media – “Blazing Saddles” comes to mind – which could not have been made under strict PC prohibitions. Blazing Saddles is one of my favorite movies, and its loss – along with other potentially offensive media – would be a loss.

    Kzoopair has brought up comedians’ increasing unwillingness to perform on college campuses. Ideally, college campuses are where diversity and exploration of ideas should be celebrated, not shut down. But I fear there has been a trend toward the latter. (I’ve been out of academia for a quarter century: I’d love to hear from someone younger about this issue.)

    If media encompasses harsh ideas – and this is not necessarily the case with Blazing Saddles – and it is suppressed, the thoughts behind those ideas haven’t been destroyed. They’ve merely been driven underground.

    Me, I want the nasty stuff out where I can see it, so I can make judgments about the folks who are putting it out there. I want to know this side of them.

    Once the ideas are out there, society can take steps to punish or reward it, such as with economic or social shunning. That’s the flip side of free speech: realizing that there are consequences. This is where some free speech advocates run into trouble: They want all the benefits of free speech, but don’t want to be smacked when they, um, talk smack. If we’re going to have the freedom, we have to take the consequences with it.

    Ideas with which I disagree, but which are expressed civilly, are of value. The symposia on “Slut” and “Friends with Benefits” have both modified and given nuance to my thinking on these terms. That’s damned valuable. Living in an echo chamber, where the only opinions one can hear are those that mirror one’s own, is not.

    A final note, and this is where activists on both sides of many issues fall down: Once a line is drawn – about what is and isn’t acceptable, whether in speech or actions – that line can be moved. Folks seem to overlook that: They believe that their line is the line of righteousness, and refuse to see that drawing limits can be used against ‘em.

    That’s hard-earned knowledge. Would that more benefited from it.

    Good, good post. Intellectually provoking, and great responses. Fine stuff, here!
Thank you for the thorough response and the Clevon Little reference. To echo the movie... "me whip this out". The golden rule has a certain elegance... the right and privileges you would like for yourself, you must alow others to have.

Do onto to other...

Find pleasure in giving pleasure


khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/22/2016 9:36 pm

    Quoting Han54boat:
    PC is going to far. As a group, it is fine and also not to bully the person because being different. One problem, it has become one way. There are two sides. Why does one needs to give up everything for the other.
I don't see being PC as a one way ticket... it's just they way those who rail against it see it, IMHO. Everything costs... if people want to talk and do what the want, then fine... as long as they accept the responsibility for the shit, verbal or otherwise, that comes back at them.

Find pleasure in giving pleasure


khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/22/2016 9:38 pm

    Quoting redrockrascal:
    Well put Humor, I completely agree. You hit quite a few nails directly on their heads.
Yes he did... as I see it, it all goes back to the golden rule.

Find pleasure in giving pleasure


khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
2/23/2016 4:12 am

I think to be kind, compassionate and empathetic is definitely a PC stance, echoing the golden rule.

Find pleasure in giving pleasure


tigger678902 53F  
4549 posts
4/25/2016 2:59 pm

Courtesy is a great thing, But the golden rule is a bit outmoded,..not because we shouldn't treat other people with respect and civility, and gentleness,...but because we don't all want to be treated the same way,..men and women communicate differently. Different cultures expect different things in terms of polite communication.
So instead of treating others the way we want to be treated we should strive to understand how others want to be treated and try as much as possible to treat them that way, and at the same time communicating our owns needs and wants on the same subject.

Good girls go to heaven,....Bad girls go EVERYWHERE!
I love to travel

Come visit my blog tigger678902


khuXBFXM8u 58M
10308 posts
4/25/2016 3:53 pm

    Quoting tigger678902:
    Courtesy is a great thing, But the golden rule is a bit outmoded,..not because we shouldn't treat other people with respect and civility, and gentleness,...but because we don't all want to be treated the same way,..men and women communicate differently. Different cultures expect different things in terms of polite communication.
    So instead of treating others the way we want to be treated we should strive to understand how others want to be treated and try as much as possible to treat them that way, and at the same time communicating our owns needs and wants on the same subject.
Point taken

Find pleasure in giving pleasure


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